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 Post subject: Re: Harris Park Shooting Range Future
Post Posted: May 13, 2018 8:54 pm 
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I have not seen an official cause of the fire.


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 Post subject: Re: Harris Park Shooting Range Future
Post Posted: May 13, 2018 9:26 pm 
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I was actually shooting there the day before the fire started. And yes many days it can get busy and yes the trash is terrible. But I think the people that leave the trash are in the minority. I know every time I go out I take a trash bag with me and fill it up with mine and everybody else's trash. And pretty much everybody else that I saw there the day before the fire started was doing the exact same thing. And I even take my young kids to shoot their often. Usually not on a weekend when it's most busy but during the week it's not bad. The idea of shutting it down on National Forest is ridiculous. Maybe you shouldn't have moved so close to National Forest. Because any national forest you moved close to you can encounter shooting at any time.
Legal shooting.
You can't take the rights away from everybody because of a few stupid people. And I like to think in the end that the stupid people will all get delt with appropriately


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 Post subject: Re: Harris Park Shooting Range Future
Post Posted: May 13, 2018 11:40 pm 
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CJH wrote:
You can't take the rights away from everybody because of a few stupid people.

tell that to the folks going through airport security this last decade who lost the right to leave their shoes on going through (one shoe bomber)

or the Parkland students who lost their right to carry a day pack of their choosing - they can not have anything but a clear see-through pack (one shooter)

we lose our 'rights' all the time because of irresponsible people - in fact, our lives are full of lost 'rights' - think of our laws - they are built around trying to 'protect' us like speed limits -
I can't drive to a certain cool spot because a few others used their atvs in the area and damaged it (an ecologically sensitive area) and now that area is closed to any motor traffic.

and that stupid lawsuit - the woman who sued mcdonalds when she spilled her hot coffee in her lap and now mcdonads and maybe the others? can't serve coffee hotter than a certain temp.

and we also lose 'rights' not because of 'stupid' people, but the numbers of folks. I used to be able to let my dog walk off leash in my neighborhood, but since more and more people moved in, i can't do that anymore

as for the shooting range, as more and more people move in and find it, don't be surprised if it too, has to be regulated for safety concerns because others are not respectful


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 Post subject: Re: Harris Park Shooting Range Future
Post Posted: May 14, 2018 5:57 am 
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Very elegantly said, WG.

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 Post subject: Re: Harris Park Shooting Range Future
Post Posted: May 14, 2018 7:42 am 
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The Harris Park Range has been there for many decades and long pre-dates the vast majority of the homes in the area. Moving into the area and then asking for it to be shut down because the noise bothers you is akin to moving next to an airport and complaining the planes are too loud. You choose to move there knowing the range was there, if you did your homework about the neighborhood. If you didn't, you should have, it's part of buying anywhere. There are several private ranges near me and understand the noise but it comes with where I chose to live. And I pre-date all but one of them.

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Last edited by Starryskies on May 14, 2018 1:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Harris Park Shooting Range Future
Post Posted: May 14, 2018 9:45 am 
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For those of you who want to see that range shut down - be careful what you wish for. Right now, people have a place to shoot where it is pretty safe, commonly known, and keeps shooting to a concentrated area. Yes, I agree with the messes that some of the yahoos cause out there. I've seen it myself and it really aggravates me. However, if this shooting range is shut down I can promise that you will have MANY people going heaven knows where in the forest to shoot and pollute. To me it makes much more sense from an environmental aspect, a safety aspect, and just a common sense point of view to keep the shooting (and the associated garbage) in a concentrated area where it is easier to clean, patrol, and maintain.


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 Post subject: Re: Harris Park Shooting Range Future
Post Posted: May 14, 2018 6:23 pm 
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It seems to be a pattern for some people here to digress into meanness and accusations. There is also some misinformation. I moved here in 1984 and there was no shooting range at that time. When the project was proposed, I protested loudly and frequently. Evidently enough other people did the same because the Forest Service shelved the idea. But a year or so later, it suddenly happened. No comment period (at least not clearly advertised) we just had a firing range. I have no desire to interfere with anyone's rights I simply thought then and continue to think now that it would be more appropriate in a less populated area. Aside from the potential for injury (I personally know some one who was shot in the leg there years ago) or fire or the trash problem, there are sound sensitive people and veterans with PTSD who are deeply disturbed by the constant sound of gunfire. Many days it sounds like a war zone. My home is my sanctuary. It is the only home I've ever owned and quite probably the home in which I will die. So why, exactly, should I abandon a home I could not afford to replace? Please have the civility to consider your words. I only propose that the range be moved somewhere more appropriate.


Last edited by gjen on May 15, 2018 8:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Harris Park Shooting Range Future
Post Posted: May 14, 2018 6:35 pm 
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It's just that if you choose move into an area with an airport, a shooting range, a public pool or anything else, you shouldn't complain about it being there. you are unusual because you came before the range.

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 Post subject: Re: Harris Park Shooting Range Future
Post Posted: May 16, 2018 12:09 pm 
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I've heard three different iterations of how shooters started the fire. Considering it was two separate fires, neither of which started directly at the range, I find these rumors to be dubious at best. I also get tired of people's knee-jerk reactions to things like this. Before we strip everyone of a recreational opportunity, let's at least make sure we have cause. I, for one, will be furious if the range gets shut down and it is later discovered that the fires weren't even started by shooters. Are there problems with trash and irresponsible idiots? Of course. I would love to see the range become a safer place for target shooting. I just think crying foul without facts is incredibly wrong. Unfortunately, it seems to be the norm these days.

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 Post subject: Re: Harris Park Shooting Range Future
Post Posted: May 16, 2018 1:57 pm 
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Until they let us know I'll think the Forest service did it... :whistle:

http://harrisparkmetrodistrict.com/?attachment_id=1276

"MORRISON, Colo., April 24, 2018 – The United States Forest Service and the Pike National Forest - South Platte Ranger District are preparing to burn up to 300 acres in the Harris Park area of Park County.
Implementation of the Harris Park prescribed fire is expected to begin as soon as weather and forest vegetation conditions meet project objectives. Burning may occur during May 2018 and the public will receive notification prior to implementation."

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 Post subject: Re: Harris Park Shooting Range Future
Post Posted: May 17, 2018 12:36 am 
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I live in Elk Creek Highlands and the sound has never bothered me. But then I've also never been bothered by the barking dogs people love to complain about.

Yes, I agree the trash is a nightmare. But shooting on National Forest land is legal (within certain parameters) and those who say that without the range people will undoubtedly shoot elsewhere and spread the trash around are undoubtedly right.

People are so quick to blame the fires on shooting but they still haven't actually said what caused them and given there were two separate ones, I find it questionable. Knee jerk reactions don't benefit anyone.


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 Post subject: Re: Harris Park Shooting Range Future
Post Posted: May 18, 2018 1:50 pm 
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Shooting is not legal on all FS land. There are places it is not allowed for a number of reasons. "Target shooting is allowed on national forest or grassland unless restricted." - https://www.fs.fed.us/visit/know-before-you-go/shooting

I am a hunter and gun owner, and I do think people should have safe places to shoot. I just don't think the HP range is an appropriate location for the heavy use it gets. Plinking with a .22 is one thing, but that's not what's happening up there. It is clear that the number of people who use the range who fall under the category of idiot-moron-dipsh*t-a-holes is wildly excessive. I have had bullets fly through the branches around me while hiking on trails in the area. There is no way that should ever happen. The litter, noise pollution in HP and disturbance of wildlife, and level of fire danger from shooters (whether it's from sparks, shells, vehicles, cigarettes, roasting weenies or whatever) is all excessive.

It is nobody's "right" to just do whatever they want wherever they want whenever they want. That's why we have this thing called Law. If people won't obey the law (and pretty much every one given by the FS is broken up there), their rights should (generally speaking) be removed. People do not respect the laws governing shooting on public land, then those rights should be removed. I agree it sucks for those of us who treat the area with respect and follow the law, but thanks to certain political and economic realities, the FS just does not have the resources to only keep the bad guys away, esp when there are so damn many of them. I for one would like to see the range closed and am more than willing to go to a formal range like the Buffalo Creek Gun Club where the kind of idiocy that takes place behind HP is not tolerated.


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