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How will you vote for the 5.03 mill increase (68% tax increase)
Poll runs till Oct 24, 2019 10:47 pm
Yes 41%  41%  [ 25 ]
No 52%  52%  [ 32 ]
Undecided 7%  7%  [ 4 ]
Won't vote 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Total votes : 61
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 Post subject: Re: Are you getting a 68% raise at work? ECFPD wants one!
Post Posted: Sep 13, 2019 7:32 pm 
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Wow! How easy it is to sit behind our computers and just say how ever we are feeling to whom ever might listen. And I’m the millennial?? See you at the board meetings, town hall meetings and in the fire chiefs office asking questions...


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 Post subject: Re: Are you getting a 68% raise at work? ECFPD wants one!
Post Posted: Sep 14, 2019 11:24 am 
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I’ve been in regular attendance. I’ve been to the town halls. I’ve attended board and townhall meetings since Groome, Dolan, Kennelly, and McLaughlin. I’ve taken the time to write my question/concerns on index cards, only to sit and watch
the Chief ignore my question(s).
@Boogie I’m sorry that you’re a millennial, and feel that you’re trapped behind the keyboard. I’m quite sure ECFPD would be more than willing to accept you as an active participating member. Keep in mind, any volunteer service should find value it all of its members. Fire doesn’t discriminate, it doesn’t pass over seasoned veterans or union members, and only kill/maim vollies. If you can’t attack, you can defend, you can engineer, you can drag/carry equipment to/from where it’s needed, you can assist with mop-up and overhaul, wash and hang hose, etc.
Sadly, over the years, ECFPD has forgotten such things. The good news, when I walk past their training exercises, I no longer hear instructors yelling(screaming) and belittling trainees. Maybe they’ve learned to lead by example, and not by intimidation. I’m still not sure why ECFPD saw fit to Unionize <a dozen paid staff members(volunteers can’t usually afford to pay union dues), and why trainees were forced to wear red T-shirt’s. If their mentor doesn’t recognize them as trainees, than the trainers are not spending enough time to build integrate them into a well structured cohesive Team. Peace out.


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 Post subject: Re: Are you getting a 68% raise at work? ECFPD wants one!
Post Posted: Sep 27, 2019 11:37 am 
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What're your thoughts on a regular audit before additional monies are provided?
It wasn't long ago that this caught a community by surprise:
https://denver.cbslocal.com/2013/10/18/ ... ire-chief/


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 Post subject: Re: Are you getting a 68% raise at work? ECFPD wants one!
Post Posted: Sep 27, 2019 12:43 pm 
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Makes sense. How much have replacement costs increased as compared to revenue increases?

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 Post subject: Re: Are you getting a 68% raise at work? ECFPD wants one!
Post Posted: Sep 27, 2019 7:03 pm 
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Replacement costs for equipment used for in-district response or equipment that is sent out of district to work in another state?
The last time there was a mill increase:
https://www.denverpost.com/2013/09/11/m ... epartment/
“The ‘administration’ increase is not administrative, but is money spent on personnel assigned to fight out-of-district fires. It is 100 percent reimbursed, and, in fact, the district comes out ahead on that assistance.”
I've read the current mill hike is to prevent the closing of two of the department's stations...but which two? Conifer Mountain's #3? Will 'O Wisp's #2? Aspen Park's #4?
Reading through the FoECF site, you'd think we're about to suffer the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse/Armageddon.
Since when did our District have a dedicated wildland team? Do you mean like the all-volunteer 285 Wildcats Team circa 2000-2005? It was volunteers from Platte Canyon, Elk Creek, North Fork, Evergreen, Indian Hills, and Inter Canyon members.
This is just one of the units that responded to Hi Meadow...all volunteers.
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How many of the new(bought with monies from the last mill) Type 3 engines are being deployed out of state? Why didn't the cisterns get repaired? Why didn't the ambulance get replaced? Why do we have so many fire SUVs?! What the heck does a fire SUV do? Maybe it's a rapid response vehicle.

Mitigation crew? Not sure where they've been working, but it's not been in my neck of the woods(no pun). If you own property in the mountains, you'd best learn how to use a saw and learn how to mitigate your own property. If you're unable to mitigate, learn how to make friends that can help you.

Audits are a good thing. Transparency and open books are a good thing. Losing the trust of your community would be a bad thing.
A previous post said "The money raised here will be spent here..." unlike RTD funding.
The more I read this, the more I wonder in which direction the money flows when I see the vehicles that were bought with my tax dollars, heading off to another state:
https://law.justia.com/codes/colorado/2 ... 32-1-1002/


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 Post subject: Our brave and hardworking Elk Creek Fire Department
Post Posted: Sep 28, 2019 10:48 am 
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Those who massage numbers can make arguments on both sides of this issue as these posts show. I'm voting for the levy.

Why? We live in a fire prone area. Having a ready and equipped fire department is a must for those of us who live here, would like to retain our homes. That won't come by nickle and diming the department, it comes from complimenting them, recognizing the sacrifices they make and being willing to make some of our own. How many of the critics here have volunteered to reduce the cost?

Second. A lot of older folks live up here. You see them at King Sooper, the Safeway. Paramedics save lives, but only if they can arrive in a timely manner. Even younger folks fall off ladders, have car accidents, strokes, even heart attacks. Being able to reduce call time and improve survival rates is a powerful argument for a yes vote. IMO.

I want to pay my share for services that work for me and for my neighbors. I hope those of you that feel the same will join me in voting for the levy.

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 Post subject: Re: Are you getting a 68% raise at work? ECFPD wants one!
Post Posted: Sep 28, 2019 11:52 am 
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:yeah that: :applause:

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 Post subject: Re: Are you getting a 68% raise at work? ECFPD wants one!
Post Posted: Sep 29, 2019 6:50 am 
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Given population increases, it seems clear that our strapped first responders need a corresponding increase in resources.


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 Post subject: Re: Are you getting a 68% raise at work? ECFPD wants one!
Post Posted: Sep 29, 2019 11:30 pm 
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Woodlily wrote:
Given population increases, it seems clear that our strapped first responders need a corresponding increase in resources.
. Population and inflation has not gone up 68%! The population increase up here is minimal. Also, any new houses and businesses bring in more taxes.


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 Post subject: Re: Are you getting a 68% raise at work? ECFPD wants one!
Post Posted: Oct 1, 2019 12:20 pm 
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A vote for the 5.03 mill increase is a vote to destroy the volunteer status of Elk Creek Fire.

Elk Creek will need this tax money (and more) to continue it's march to a fully PAID fire department. The history and long standing legacy of Elk Creek Fire as a volunteer department is slowly being chipped away. At one time I understand that in the past Elk Creek had a volunteer count in the high 70's, and today it's in the mid 40's.

This last month a former Elk Creek board member came and gave a talk about this topic. As I understand it, Elk Creek has unionized and the new administration is "unfriendly" to volunteers. This costs more money. The department is adding full time jobs as fast as it can, and making it difficult for volunteers by requiring more training and certifications. These are volunteers who already have a full time job in most cases. A full time paid department costs much more to the taxpayer without any noticeable improvement in services. Unfortunately, many new people moving into the area do not know about the legacy of volunteer fire departments in this area.

Jefferson County special districts and Jeffco Government are supporting efforts to grow all aspects of government. TABOR is under attack at the state level (CC), and at the Jeffco level (1A) and special district levels (Elk Creek and others). There is even an effort to raise the county sales taxes. Fire Departments are joining in.

Two years ago, Evergreen Fire mill levy was doubled by the voters- the reasons given were exactly the same as those given for the Elk Creek tax increase. It worked and the new Mill levy passed with flying colors. There has been no improvement in service since the tax increase- it just costs twice as much! Evergreen residents now subsidize medicare ambulance and other costs that were reduced by Obamacare. But an ambulance ride to the hospital still costs over $1800.00.

Remember- volunteer fire departments share resources and equipment when there is a major event, so each fire department helps out the others in a time of need. There is no need to have every kind of equipment on hand at all times.

All this means that the residents will either reject this needless expansion or face much higher living costs in the near future.

Add these up all together and it will cost a family several thousands of dollars more per year to live up here. Get out those wallets!

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 Post subject: Re: Are you getting a 68% raise at work? ECFPD wants one!
Post Posted: Oct 1, 2019 4:56 pm 
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If you don't support the Elk Creek mill increase that is fine. Put up all the signs you want but leave the signs that Friends of Elk Creek Fire put up alone. WE pay for these signs...this is our money. LEAVE OUR SUPPORT 7B SIGNS ALONE!


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 Post subject: Re: Are you getting a 68% raise at work? ECFPD wants one!
Post Posted: Oct 1, 2019 10:37 pm 
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BearMtnHIB wrote:
A vote for the 5.03 mill increase is a vote to destroy the volunteer status of Elk Creek Fire.

Elk Creek will need this tax money (and more) to continue it's march to a fully PAID fire department. The history and long standing legacy of Elk Creek Fire as a volunteer department is slowly being chipped away. At one time I understand that in the past Elk Creek had a volunteer count in the high 70's, and today it's in the mid 40's.

This last month a former Elk Creek board member came and gave a talk about this topic. As I understand it, Elk Creek has unionized and the new administration is "unfriendly" to volunteers. This costs more money. The department is adding full time jobs as fast as it can, and making it difficult for volunteers by requiring more training and certifications. These are volunteers who already have a full time job in most cases. A full time paid department costs much more to the taxpayer without any noticeable improvement in services. Unfortunately, many new people moving into the area do not know about the legacy of volunteer fire departments in this area.

Jefferson County special districts and Jeffco Government are supporting efforts to grow all aspects of government. TABOR is under attack at the state level (CC), and at the Jeffco level (1A) and special district levels (Elk Creek and others). There is even an effort to raise the county sales taxes. Fire Departments are joining in.

Two years ago, Evergreen Fire mill levy was doubled by the voters- the reasons given were exactly the same as those given for the Elk Creek tax increase. It worked and the new Mill levy passed with flying colors. There has been no improvement in service since the tax increase- it just costs twice as much! Evergreen residents now subsidize medicare ambulance and other costs that were reduced by Obamacare. But an ambulance ride to the hospital still costs over $1800.00.

Remember- volunteer fire departments share resources and equipment when there is a major event, so each fire department helps out the others in a time of need. There is no need to have every kind of equipment on hand at all times.

All this means that the residents will either reject this needless expansion or face much higher living costs in the near future.

Add these up all together and it will cost a family several thousands of dollars more per year to live up here. Get out those wallets!


To say that a full time paid department costs more without any noticeable improvement in services is laughable. If your house was on fire, or your loved one was in cardiac arrest - would you want multiple full time staff (including actual paramedics, not just first responders or EMT basics) responding directly to your house, immediately? Or would you want (potentially only one person) to wake up at their own house, get dressed, go scrape their windshield and start their car - then respond to the fire station, get their gear on the rig, start the rig - and finally drive to your house? Are you familiar with the phrase “time is tissue?”

I’m not attempting to belittle the hard working volunteers. I was a volunteer firefighter for years. That’s just how it is in the real world. I think the volunteers do a fantastic job with what they have. They donate their time away from their loved ones to help the community. That’s very honorable. But you are comparing people who respond to emergencies for a living, to people who do it as a hobby or to fulfill a sense of civic duty - in addition to their full time job. I understand that the department tries to get volunteers to do shift work from the stations, for a more timely response. But that doesn’t always happen. Those stations are vacant sometimes.

And the lines about volunteers sharing resources when needed, is wishful thinking. When I volunteered, we guarded our equipment like hawks. Simply because we couldn’t afford to replace missing or broken equipment. These days there are automatic aid agreements in most areas, paid and volunteer. But that’s a dispatch thing, not a volunteer thing. And again, if your house was on fire and the fire department needed a specialized hose bundle to reach your house from the road, or a capable firefighting vehicle to get up your driveway (or any other firefighting tools or equipment) - would you want it to come from the station closest to your house, or from a neighboring department 20 miles down the road? Your house could be ashes by then. I’m not saying every department needs a jet boat, or it’s own helicopter - but they should be able to mitigate local emergencies effectively and in a timely manner.

Lastly, I’m all for transparency. I also want to know where my money is going. I work hard for my money. But I don’t think we can continue to lean so hard on the diminishing volunteers and neighboring departments to bail us out.


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