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 Post subject: Re: Buying a new car, some thoughts
Post Posted: Dec 28, 2018 11:49 am 
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Worked on cars for 25yrs, auto parts for 11yrs after that, Toyota, Honda is what I recommend, if you have lots of money,, Mercedes. :hugegrin:

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 Post subject: Re: Buying a new car, some thoughts
Post Posted: Dec 28, 2018 6:07 pm 
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GM and Ford. In that order.

Don't give me that "domestic cars are less reliable" talk.... The 70s are long gone. All auto manufacturers have made vehicles people do not want. Why is Ford F150 the worlds best selling pickup truck? Why does the USPS still drive Jeep Cherokees made in 90s and 2000s? Even their bulletproof postal vehicles are modified Jeeps.

Don't worry.. Detroit is doing fantastic.. Detroit doesn't need any support from fellow Americans.. none at all.. :roll:

Although many foreign owned auto manufacturers have plants in America - the vast majority of profits, after paying labor and overhead, goes over seas to foreign countries - namely Japan or Germany.

With all the "Buy Local" talk in this community - one would hope to see more American vehicles on the road... Then again.. someone has to keep the repair shops in business...

Save me the anecdotes of "I've worked on cars for X amount of years." or "I've owned X car for X years and it runs great." For every anecdote that a foreign company's car is great there is an anecdote that an American company's car is great.

"The U.S. holdings and employment of the three domestic carmakers easily outstrip those of overseas car companies."

https://www.edmunds.com/car-buying/fore ... ey-go.html


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 Post subject: Re: Buying a new car, some thoughts
Post Posted: Dec 29, 2018 9:41 am 
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Interesting discussion. I agree that if you are looking purely at value, used is the way to go IF you find a good vehicle at the right price, and dont mind shouldering any repair costs or buying an aftermarket warranty. I buy new cause I like to (smells good for the first couple years too) I've worked hard and guess I'm spoiled. Then I try to drive the thing til the wheels fall off.

Have had best luck with Toyotas and Subarus. Ford makes fine vehicles too. Traded my 2015 F150 in for a 2018 Toyota Tundra this spring because the Ford dealer couldn't get an oxygen sensor in for a month, tho. I loved the Ford and love the Toyota. Toyota is a bit more basic and feels more rugged, Ford is more up to date and better fuel economy. For a family, the F150 with ecoboost is my pick; for a workin' man who uses it as a truck or goes offroad (unless you can afford a Raptor), the Tundra. Tundra is made in San Antonio, by the way. Not sure where the F150 was made.
Once upon a time, it was easy to buy a bad car. Not so much over the past 20 years or so. Quality has come up across the board since I was young.

Here is a link to Cars.com list of the "most American" car models. Note half on the list are "foreign" car models. "Most American" looks at several factors including where the profit goes, US jobs, etc.

https://www.cars.com/articles/carscom-2 ... 700348632/


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 Post subject: Re: Buying a new car, some thoughts
Post Posted: Dec 29, 2018 1:18 pm 
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Toyota frame rust settlement could cost the company $3.4 billion
https://autoweek.com/article/recalls/to ... 34-billion

The Tundra feels more rugged, huh?


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 Post subject: Re: Buying a new car, some thoughts
Post Posted: Dec 30, 2018 10:27 am 
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cscitney87 wrote:
Toyota frame rust settlement could cost the company $3.4 billion
https://autoweek.com/article/recalls/to ... 34-billion

The Tundra feels more rugged, huh?


Cause they used an American supplier?


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 Post subject: Re: Buying a new car, some thoughts
Post Posted: Dec 30, 2018 12:27 pm 
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That is funny.. Dana supplies steel to Ford and Toyota... yet Ford does not have this issue. I am sure Toyota is completely innocent, though... :doh:

Toyota was Dana’s second-largest auto customer in 2009, the most-recent year for which data is available.

Toyota accounted for up 6 percent of Dana’s sales from continuing operations that year, topped only by Ford Motor Co (F.N) at 20 percent.

https://www.reuters.com/article/retire- ... KZ20110112


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 Post subject: Re: Buying a new car, some thoughts
Post Posted: Jan 1, 2019 1:17 am 
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cscitney87 wrote:
GM and Ford. In that order.

Don't give me that "domestic cars are less reliable" talk.... The 70s are long gone. All auto manufacturers have made vehicles people do not want. Why is Ford F150 the worlds best selling pickup truck? Why does the USPS still drive Jeep Cherokees made in 90s and 2000s? Even their bulletproof postal vehicles are modified Jeeps.

Don't worry.. Detroit is doing fantastic.. Detroit doesn't need any support from fellow Americans.. none at all.. :roll:

Although many foreign owned auto manufacturers have plants in America - the vast majority of profits, after paying labor and overhead, goes over seas to foreign countries - namely Japan or Germany.

With all the "Buy Local" talk in this community - one would hope to see more American vehicles on the road... Then again.. someone has to keep the repair shops in business...

Save me the anecdotes of "I've worked on cars for X amount of years." or "I've owned X car for X years and it runs great." For every anecdote that a foreign company's car is great there is an anecdote that an American company's car is great.

"The U.S. holdings and employment of the three domestic carmakers easily outstrip those of overseas car companies."

https://www.edmunds.com/car-buying/fore ... ey-go.html

I'll still give you that "domestic cars are less reliable talk". There are good reasons for all of the Japanese cars I see around here. Sure, American cars are generally improved but look at the Consumer Report ratings on the top companies and it is pretty obvious the differences. The funny thing is many of the foreign cars are very "American" anyway as many are built or supplied here.
My main problem with GM is the prices are ridiculous for trucks and SUVs. 70K for a Pickup? I think that is a big reason why GM and Ford give up market share and not just reliability.


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 Post subject: Re: Buying a new car, some thoughts
Post Posted: Jan 1, 2019 9:15 am 
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It is all relative. See above posts. I sure hope you don't make and sell something that gets undercut by cheap imports.

Here are the latest numbers... good luck.

2019 Chevrolet Silverado 1500/MSRP
From $28,300
MPG: Up to 20 city / 23 highway
Horsepower: 285 to 420 hp
Towing capacity
6,700 to 9,900 lbs

2019 Toyota Tundra/MSRP
From $31,420
MPG: Up to 15 city / 19 highway
Horsepower: 310 to 381 hp
Towing capacity
6,400 to 10,200 lbs


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 Post subject: Re: Buying a new car, some thoughts
Post Posted: Jan 2, 2019 12:14 am 
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After owning over 100 cars and trucks over 50+ years, I can speak with some authority about value. Of course it is different depending on your lifestyle and circumstances. I bought ONE new car, a 1964 Pontiac Catalina, while in college, and then getting married. My Dad bailed me out. Never again ! I have owned over 100 vehicles since then, all paid for cash, and repaired as necessary. The accumulated savings over 50 years ? - $ 100,000, which allowed me to own 4 consecutive condos in Hawaii, and buy good real estate here in the Colorado foothills, which I am getting ready to liquidate for a $ 220,000 gain. I was also a highly paid consultant to GM and the new car dealers on marketing and sales.So, please do not listen to the TV ads, or anyone touting new cars, unless you have unlimited funds.
Used is the way to go, know what you are doing or have a savvy friend, and pay as you go Stay under 15 years and 100,000 miles. Good luck.


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 Post subject: Re: Buying a new car, some thoughts
Post Posted: Jan 2, 2019 1:11 am 
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kennywg wrote:
After owning over 100 cars and trucks over 50+ years, I can speak with some authority about value. Of course it is different depending on your lifestyle and circumstances. I bought ONE new car, a 1964 Pontiac Catalina, while in college, and then getting married. My Dad bailed me out. Never again ! I have owned over 100 vehicles since then, all paid for cash, and repaired as necessary. The accumulated savings over 50 years ? - $ 100,000, which allowed me to own 4 consecutive condos in Hawaii, and buy good real estate here in the Colorado foothills, which I am getting ready to liquidate for a $ 220,000 gain. I was also a highly paid consultant to GM and the new car dealers on marketing and sales.So, please do not listen to the TV ads, or anyone touting new cars, unless you have unlimited funds.
Used is the way to go, know what you are doing or have a savvy friend, and pay as you go Stay under 15 years and 100,000 miles. Good luck.

I'm curious - why did you buy over 100 cars? Are you actually trying to fix and flip them? I never thought that was really possible to make money on. I'm also wondering how that $100,000 can buy 4 condos. Somehow I'm thinking the condos themselves let you make more money on future condos. Anyway - congrats on making it financially!


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 Post subject: Re: Buying a new car, some thoughts
Post Posted: Jan 2, 2019 1:19 am 
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cscitney87 wrote:
It is all relative. See above posts. I sure hope you don't make and sell something that gets undercut by cheap imports.

Here are the latest numbers... good luck.

2019 Chevrolet Silverado 1500/MSRP
From $28,300
MPG: Up to 20 city / 23 highway
Horsepower: 285 to 420 hp
Towing capacity
6,700 to 9,900 lbs

2019 Toyota Tundra/MSRP
From $31,420
MPG: Up to 15 city / 19 highway
Horsepower: 310 to 381 hp
Towing capacity
6,400 to 10,200 lbs


Yes - I'm sure many examples could be made of specific price points but there are too many apples and oranges comparisons with all the different base features, rebates, financing deals, etc. thrown in.
It really is pretty simple - most people don't say "Hmmm - I'm going to avoid American cars because I hate..." or even "I'm going to buy ONLY American cars because I'm sick of import this and that taking over our jobs!...". People buy a car based on perceived VALUE and around here much of that is going to "foreign" nameplates based on price/reliablity/features, etc. etc. I certainly don't have a problem buying a car made in Tennessee or Alabama by a foreign nameplate versus a GM or Ford made in Detroit.


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 Post subject: Re: Buying a new car, some thoughts
Post Posted: Jan 10, 2019 6:35 am 
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I went to Stevesons to buy something in my price range. I found the particular salesman to be pushy, and pressured me way beyond my financial limits. I made the mistake of being truthful up front about what I could afford. I did not like him, the transaction or the car.

However, that car, a used Toyota Highlander, has not given me any problems at all. It's dependable and great on slippery roads. I drove it home from downtown at 11:00 pm once during a heavy spring snow storm on an unplowed road. We made it with very little sliding. I still don't like it aesthetly, and would never recommend this particular salesman, but it has turned out to be an excellent vehicle, thankfully.

I was embarrassed to buy a foreign car. I was raised to buy strictly American by WWII parents. When I finally was forced to tell my big brother what make I bought, he shocked me by saying they had a great reputation. :lol:

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