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 Post subject: Re: AMI Meters (Smart Meters) coming soon
Post Posted: Jan 12, 2019 1:58 pm 
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Olivine wrote:
EMF has been classified as a class 2b carcinogen, but I see no mention of this on the links provided.

Do you have any statistics at all that identify the increase in EMF that we would be exposed to by these devices? If so, please quote them. Otherwise, this is an empty claim. We are all subjected to EMF every second of every day, and some of these sources are natural (solar). Crash Davis, earlier in this forum, posted links to studies that claim that the amount of radiation from an AMI device is infinistesmal compared to a cell phone held to your ear. Since he posted a link, I am much more inclined to believe that claim than I am from somebody who takes no steps to quantify their claim.

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 Post subject: Re: AMI Meters (Smart Meters) coming soon
Post Posted: Jan 12, 2019 5:16 pm 
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keg wrote:
Olivine wrote:
EMF has been classified as a class 2b carcinogen, but I see no mention of this on the links provided.

Do you have any statistics at all that identify the increase in EMF that we would be exposed to by these devices? If so, please quote them. Otherwise, this is an empty claim. We are all subjected to EMF every second of every day, and some of these sources are natural (solar). Crash Davis, earlier in this forum, posted links to studies that claim that the amount of radiation from an AMI device is infinistesmal compared to a cell phone held to your ear. Since he posted a link, I am much more inclined to believe that claim than I am from somebody who takes no steps to quantify their claim.

Here is what I found:
The Working Group classified ELF-EMFs as “possibly carcinogenic to humans,” based on limited evidence from human studies in relation to childhood leukemia. Static electric and magnetic fields and extremely low frequency electric fields were determined “not classifiable as to their carcinogenicity to humans
https://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/cau ... fact-sheet


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 Post subject: Re: AMI Meters (Smart Meters) coming soon
Post Posted: Jan 13, 2019 8:46 am 
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Thank you, SITP, that report pretty much bears out my contention that EMF radiation is ubiquitous, will continue to be so, and any possible impact on human health is pretty much unavoidable at this point. So, any claim that AMI meters should be opposed because they could be carcinogenic should be backed up with statistics regarding the additional amount of EMF radiation hitting the body of a human living in a residence with such a meter. Without that, as I mentioned above, the claim is empty.

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 Post subject: Re: AMI Meters (Smart Meters) coming soon
Post Posted: Jan 13, 2019 9:47 am 
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So the argument in favor of smart meters is, we are already surrounded by possible carcinogenic radiation - what is the harm in adding more? Is that similar to the "we all have to die sometime" argument?

"While largely unknown and rarely discussed, there's evidence to suggest a significant percentage of the diseases we now face is related to electromagnetic interference (EMI), so-called "dirty electricity," and microwave radiation from cellphones, routers, portable phones, smart meters and more. In a nutshell, these kinds of exposures impact your biology, specifically your mitochondrial function, which we've now come to appreciate is at the heart of virtually all chronic disease."

https://articles.mercola.com/sites/arti ... ngers.aspx


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 Post subject: Re: AMI Meters (Smart Meters) coming soon
Post Posted: Jan 13, 2019 11:50 am 
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cscitney87 wrote:
So the argument in favor of smart meters is, we are already surrounded by possible carcinogenic radiation - what is the harm in adding more? Is that similar to the "we all have to die sometime" argument?

I would say this is a masterful attempt at deflecting my response … but it is not.

cscitney87, I am not advocating the use of AMI meters ... I do not know enough about them to advocate or reject. What I am objecting to is the attempt to smear them by rashly making the claim that they generate radiation and thus are harmful. That is pure sensationalism. Now, if you want to make the claim that they generate radiation to the extent that they significantly increase the overall magnitude of such radiation to a resident and thus pose a significant health threat, then by all means make that claim … and substantiate it. And by "substantiate", I mean something much more definitive than that nebulous article you posted a link to. I am not that impressed with unproven claims of health impacts immediately after installation of a device. There is a potential cause-and-effect, yes, and it should be investigated … but it is not that difficult to prove that there is a significant increase in radiation with such a device in operation, and I saw no attempt at all of proof in that article. It does mention cellphones as another source of radiation, and somebody implied earlier in the thread that the amount of radiation from an AMI device that would actually reach a resident is miniscule compared to a cellphone held at the ear. I do not have proof of this, either ... but I find it credible.

In short … if someone wants to make the claim that radiation from an AMI device is harmful to residents … the onus is on that someone to prove it so, and that this radiation can be isolated as the cause. And if it is the cause … then I would suggest that, if you're serious about reducing harmful EMF, then you should definitely be working towards outlawing cellphones.

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 Post subject: Re: AMI Meters (Smart Meters) coming soon
Post Posted: Jan 13, 2019 2:53 pm 
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Olivine wrote:
cscitney87 wrote:
God forbid someone grows a couple extra plants in their house. Hope you have never done anything wrong in your life.... not a single crime committed.

Unfortunately these meters are being installed. Stories have surfaced for years along with video documenting power company employees trespassing to install these new meters against home owners permission. Sometimes things get heated.

I suggest we all remain calm and approach this issue diplomatically. There is a tendency to let emotions influence behavior in a negative way when dealing with this sensitive topic. I may ask for an opt out as well. I do not want these new meters. Doubt my request will be granted.



Yes, great advice and we would be wise to heed it.
And yes, you are right, your request will probably be denied, BUT there is hope.
Check out the many steps Fountain Valley, CO had to go through to get just the opt-out.
https://takebackyourpower.net/how-we-ac ... -colorado/

Regardless of health and privacy issues, it comes down to being forced into participating in something that you don't want to participate in.
While it is unlikely that the SmartGrid can be stopped, we can still want to have some autonomy when it comes to our own households.
If SOME communities have been able to get an opt-out, why can't we also?

I doubt that a small percentage of humans opting out will prevent the SmartGrid from operating how it needs to.
Why such a pushback on citizens who don't want this?


Every argument against these in here has been unsubstantiated, sensationalized nonsense. Making something out of absolutely nothing. Think of all the pollution avoided across the country by not needing someone to physically visit each meter every month. Oh wow, you can breathe better now! Not to mention, the money saved by not having to pay people to do that can pay for people to "expand the infrastructure".

The solution is simple, if you don't want the meters, if you don't want someone "trespassing" to get to it (it's not trespassing BTW), tell IREA to completely remove their meter from your house. Then you don't have to worry about any of it. No bills. No "health concers". No "privacy concerns". None of it.

Fabricating these ridiculous excuses is absurd.


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 Post subject: Re: AMI Meters (Smart Meters) coming soon
Post Posted: Jan 13, 2019 4:14 pm 
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I am not an attorney. My personal understanding is that a homeowner has the right to demand anyone leave their property. The deed to the property may contain a utility easement. If the utility worker is denied access, the utility may consider their service/contract null and void. A court order can be obtained that allows the utility to collect their equipment from that property at a future date. What has been documented is utility workers ignoring the homeowner completely. In some cases, destroying personal property such as fencing and locks in order to get access to the meter. This may be considered trespassing. I have not seen evidence of IREA doing this.


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 Post subject: Re: AMI Meters (Smart Meters) coming soon
Post Posted: Mar 13, 2019 11:02 am 
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Hello, the monthly IREA board meeting is coming up March 21st at 9:30am. Public has time to address the Board.

Also, some of us who ARE concerned about this and matters surrounding it are going to be meeting this weekend - likely Saturday morning in Bailey. Will post details.

Also, election for Board of Directors is coming up as well.
Information (according to website will be mailed out 3/14).


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 Post subject: Re: AMI Meters (Smart Meters) coming soon
Post Posted: Mar 13, 2019 11:07 am 
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IntermountainREA wrote:
Hi, everyone. We appreciate your concerns regarding new meters and the Advanced Metering Infrastructure. We have dedicated a portion of our website to addressing those concerns: http://www.IREA.coop/ami. We encourage customers to visit the website to learn more about AMI. We have included links to numerous independent studies and have included answers to many questions.

If you have any questions not addressed on the website, please don’t hesitate to post them here and we will try to answer them as quickly and completely as possible.


Haven't seen anything since this post from them.
Why even post this?


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 Post subject: Re: AMI Meters (Smart Meters) coming soon
Post Posted: Mar 13, 2019 11:22 am 
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KSK wrote:
Olivine wrote:
cscitney87 wrote:
God forbid someone grows a couple extra plants in their house. Hope you have never done anything wrong in your life.... not a single crime committed.

Unfortunately these meters are being installed. Stories have surfaced for years along with video documenting power company employees trespassing to install these new meters against home owners permission. Sometimes things get heated.

I suggest we all remain calm and approach this issue diplomatically. There is a tendency to let emotions influence behavior in a negative way when dealing with this sensitive topic. I may ask for an opt out as well. I do not want these new meters. Doubt my request will be granted.



Yes, great advice and we would be wise to heed it.
And yes, you are right, your request will probably be denied, BUT there is hope.
Check out the many steps Fountain Valley, CO had to go through to get just the opt-out.
https://takebackyourpower.net/how-we-ac ... -colorado/

Regardless of health and privacy issues, it comes down to being forced into participating in something that you don't want to participate in.
While it is unlikely that the SmartGrid can be stopped, we can still want to have some autonomy when it comes to our own households.
If SOME communities have been able to get an opt-out, why can't we also?

I doubt that a small percentage of humans opting out will prevent the SmartGrid from operating how it needs to.
Why such a pushback on citizens who don't want this?


Every argument against these in here has been unsubstantiated, sensationalized nonsense. Making something out of absolutely nothing. Think of all the pollution avoided across the country by not needing someone to physically visit each meter every month. Oh wow, you can breathe better now! Not to mention, the money saved by not having to pay people to do that can pay for people to "expand the infrastructure".

The solution is simple, if you don't want the meters, if you don't want someone "trespassing" to get to it (it's not trespassing BTW), tell IREA to completely remove their meter from your house. Then you don't have to worry about any of it. No bills. No "health concers". No "privacy concerns". None of it.

Fabricating these ridiculous excuses is absurd.


"Every argument"... "Something out of nothing"...this is not true.
What you call fabricating excuses is just plain concern for others.
Yes, you are right about the trespassing issue and telling IREA to completely remove their meters and services altogether; there are folks doing this already.

Aside from selfish human interest of how this affects us, what about the other inhabitants that live here namely birds, bees and other insects?
https://ehtrust.org/science/bees-butter ... vironment/
https://www.newsweek.com/migratory-bird ... ion-934830

The very simple issue and aim here is for people to be able to opt-out if they want to (as others around the country and even in our state have been able to).


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 Post subject: Re: AMI Meters (Smart Meters) coming soon
Post Posted: Mar 13, 2019 4:15 pm 
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Now the birds, bees, and other insects are affected? Do you even hear the nonsense you're posting? Something out of nothing? ABSOLUTELY! It's ridiculous. Wow!


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 Post subject: Re: AMI Meters (Smart Meters) coming soon
Post Posted: Mar 13, 2019 4:41 pm 
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Olivine, when you spend as much time and effort in protesting against cell phones, wireless internet, smart homes, increasing human presence (with the energy transmission requirements that entails) in wilderness areas, and all the other myriad generators of EMF, you just might get some of us to pay attention to what you're saying about smart meters, which would add a hardly noticeable blip to the current usage of EMF bands.

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