It is currently Aug 19, 2019 4:28 pm 




Do you or someone you know need some help with a project?
Click here to contact the Neighborhood Action Team.



Reply to topic  [ 21 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

Previous topic | Next topic 

  Print view

Offline 
 Post subject: Re: Scanners Encrypted Now?
Post Posted: Aug 13, 2019 11:02 am 
Active Pinecam Poster
Active Pinecam Poster
Joined: May 2, 2006 1:32 pm
Posts: 308
Encrypt away! Officer safety is a real thing, and counting on crooks, terrorists, active shooters, etc, to be too stupid to use a scanner is wishful thinking. Compromising their safety for the sake of your hobby is beyond selfish.


Top
  Profile  
Reply with quote  
Offline 
 Post subject: Re: Scanners Encrypted Now?
Post Posted: Aug 13, 2019 11:38 am 
Pinecam Hall of Fame poster!
Pinecam Hall of Fame poster!
User avatar
Joined: Nov 26, 2002 3:51 pm
Posts: 11518
Location: Bolen draws a self-portrait. artist: Drew Litton.
The impact to mountain community bulletin boards such as Pinecam will be very slight, if any.

The encryption affects only law enforcement, and then, only LE that has proven successful radio systems in mountain settings,
and that would be success with digital trunking system success.

Park County has the technology but not the money to implement encryption.

These digital systems require service as good as or better than cell service as they rely on towers every time no exceptions.
This facet of the technology is a double-edged sword- the bad guys also need very good service in order to get every back-and-forth conversation, nearly impossible in the mountains in a portable scenario.

Radio communications such as fire, EMS, county road crews, IREA, and Search and Rescue have not explored encryption, and with very few exceptions, use only analog VHF radios, which do not rely on towers but towers can help. Car-to-car communications in this case.

Digital communications can never successfully be car-to-car. A tower is always required.

So, Count on the Pinecam scanner team to bring you Fire, EMS, and road information as always.

_________________
My scanner feed: Click the www link below >>>>>
http://www.broadcastify.com/listen/feed/222


Top
  Profile  
Reply with quote  
Offline 
 Post subject: Re: Scanners Encrypted Now?
Post Posted: Aug 13, 2019 11:44 am 
Pinecam Hall of Fame poster!
Pinecam Hall of Fame poster!
User avatar
Joined: Nov 26, 2002 3:51 pm
Posts: 11518
Location: Bolen draws a self-portrait. artist: Drew Litton.
Flume Editor wrote:

Denver went fully encrypted on July 1st. News agencies can apply for permission to scan the transmissions, but the agency is free to make the final decision who they consider valid news sources. So they can deny smaller media outlets all together.


Don't forget, and this is very important as a news organization as you are:

The Major media organizations REFUSED to sign an agreement letting them acquire a decryption radio in trade for media files and records being fully available to law enforcement, a huge violation of the Amendments to our US Constitution.

_________________
My scanner feed: Click the www link below >>>>>
http://www.broadcastify.com/listen/feed/222


Top
  Profile  
Reply with quote  
Offline 
 Post subject: Re: Scanners Encrypted Now?
Post Posted: Aug 13, 2019 11:52 am 
Active Pinecam Poster
Active Pinecam Poster
User avatar
Joined: Apr 20, 2005 9:16 am
Posts: 572
Location: Evergreen, Bear Mountain
Lazierfan- responding to your post.
The police encrypting their communications is just the "next step" in the frog in hot water theory. As you know Denver and Aurora have encrypted police communications. Now the Fire departments are wanting to do the same thing.
Will Pinecam be affected if all Fire traffic is encrypted?

Here's a story Posted: 2:54 PM, Mar 23, 2019
Quote:
DENVER — This week, the Denver Fire Department dispatch communications begun encrypting its radio channels.

The department is following the move dozens of agencies across Colorado have already taken to restrict radio traffic as a safety and privacy precaution.

https://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/360/more-police-departments-are-encrypting-their-scanners-raising-freedom-of-information-concerns

Soon Jeffco will likely want to do the same thing. At that point we are all affected. This is not just about a hobby- the radio traffic belongs to the public and sensitive communications can be kept off the public airwaves.
I do not want to debate this issue- Pinecam is a bad place to debate. Others have already explained why this is a bad idea.

Reasons to Not Encrypt Police Communication
› 1st Amendment
› Government transparency
› Citizens & media oversight
› To allow citizens & off-duty public safety personnel to respond to emergencies
› Backup & neighboring police officers receive delayed information
› Inhibits the media’s ability to accurately report news in real time & inform citizens

Here is an article on the subject.
https://komonews.com/news/tech/police-departments-use-encryption-to-tune-public-out-12-19-2015

P.S. When encryption starts in Jefferson County, I will be shutting down my scanner feeds. If anyone is interested in taking over this commitment to serve what will be left to feed to the public- please contact me by P.M. I am hoping to find someone in the Evergreen or Conifer area.

_________________
"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them."
-Thomas Jefferson


Top
  Profile  
Reply with quote  
Offline 
 Post subject: Re: Scanners Encrypted Now?
Post Posted: Aug 13, 2019 1:50 pm 
Active Pinecam Poster
Active Pinecam Poster
Joined: Oct 20, 2013 10:29 am
Posts: 472
BearMtnHIB wrote:
Meborrego wrote:
The 700 & 800 Mhz band is the frequency band used by most all of the public safety agencies in the Colorado and other states for thier digital radio systems and 90.553 is not referring to business radio services it is referring to public safety frequencies. The project 25 DES standard that is mentioned was developed for public safety (LE) radio systems. Encryption has been allowed by the FCC on public safety frequencies since the mid 1990's. It was originally called voice scrambling. The Project 25 standards were deveoped in the early 2000's. The rules allowing encryption are not new!

I'm not trying to start an argument, just be informative and present the correct information and just as some background, I spent 35 years working in public safety communications, was part of the group the developed the Project 25 standards and was a subject matter expert for many federal and state agencies,

Read a little closer Meborrego
The rule 90.553 applies to the Use of Frequencies in the 763-775 and 793-805 MHz Bands.
This is a private radio service used by business.

If you want to get technical- the details matter.

P25 LE bands are in the 850mhz range.


Thanks pointing out my error. I beleive the corrct tule is 90.212.


Top
  Profile  
Reply with quote  
Offline 
 Post subject: Re: Scanners Encrypted Now?
Post Posted: Aug 13, 2019 3:11 pm 
Pinecam Hall of Fame poster!
Pinecam Hall of Fame poster!
User avatar
Joined: Nov 26, 2002 3:51 pm
Posts: 11518
Location: Bolen draws a self-portrait. artist: Drew Litton.
The laws of physics are against JeffCO mountain and Park mountain encrypting.

Money is the answer to overcoming signal strength.
Buying land for hundreds of towers, eminent domain, buying out environmentalists,
hiring radio professionals, bidding on Motorola contracts, just so encryption radios
get the best signal for their best performance...

VHF car-to-car still works. We will listen to that.

Any year now, modern law enforcement will realize they can't overcome the laws of physics, and millions will be
spent on digital trunked technology that doesn't work in the mountains.

With MDT laptops in the cars, with texting, and many other LE techniques, they'll also realize
radio is outdated.

_________________
My scanner feed: Click the www link below >>>>>
http://www.broadcastify.com/listen/feed/222


Top
  Profile  
Reply with quote  
Offline 
 Post subject: Re: Scanners Encrypted Now?
Post Posted: Aug 13, 2019 3:14 pm 
Pinecam Hall of Fame poster!
Pinecam Hall of Fame poster!
User avatar
Joined: Nov 26, 2002 3:51 pm
Posts: 11518
Location: Bolen draws a self-portrait. artist: Drew Litton.
Again, Bear, Law Enforcement is the only one affected.

Pinecam will be less affected than the OP realizes, and the affect on Pinecam was the original post. We don't need the science behind the digital trunked encrypted systems in this post because it is nearly impossible to support in this mountain infrastructure as it was built.

_________________
My scanner feed: Click the www link below >>>>>
http://www.broadcastify.com/listen/feed/222


Top
  Profile  
Reply with quote  
Offline 
 Post subject: Re: Scanners Encrypted Now?
Post Posted: Aug 13, 2019 3:16 pm 
Pinecam Hall of Fame poster!
Pinecam Hall of Fame poster!
User avatar
Joined: Nov 26, 2002 3:51 pm
Posts: 11518
Location: Bolen draws a self-portrait. artist: Drew Litton.
No Bear, Fire in Elk Creek and Platte Canon is NOT affected, to answer your question.

Those are on VHF analog, the technology that preceded digital.

_________________
My scanner feed: Click the www link below >>>>>
http://www.broadcastify.com/listen/feed/222


Top
  Profile  
Reply with quote  
Offline 
 Post subject: Re: Scanners Encrypted Now?
Post Posted: Aug 13, 2019 3:21 pm 
Active Pinecam Poster
Active Pinecam Poster
User avatar
Joined: Apr 20, 2005 9:16 am
Posts: 572
Location: Evergreen, Bear Mountain
Maybe you are partially correct Lazierfan- but Jeffco Sheriff and State Patrol are already using 853Mhz P25 digital systems right now. They cover these mountain areas everyday. All they have to do is flick the switch- and they are encrypted.

The brand new VHF repeater systems that Jeffco just installed and the new dispatch center in Golden used for Evergreen and Elk Creek Fire are also capable of encryption. Yes- FM analog audio can be encrypted. I have a few of these radios myself.

And money is not a problem- not for a government with the will to tax.

Quote:
With MDT laptops in the cars, with texting, and many other LE techniques, they'll also realize
radio is outdated.

Here we totally agree. So why do they want to encrypt?

_________________
"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them."
-Thomas Jefferson


Top
  Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic  [ 21 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:

Who is online

In total there are 120 users online :: 6 registered, 2 hidden and 112 guests (based on users active over the past 60 minutes)
Most users ever online was 2823 on Mar 26, 2012 7:26 pm

Users browsing this forum: Baidu [Spider], Chinook, firefall, grandwazoo, Mtn Mama, stnm and 112 guests





Powered by phpBB © 2000-2012 phpBB Group

This website copyright © 1994-2019 by
Pinecam.com is a member of the Platte Canyon Area Chamber of Commerce